© 2007 Antonio Moya, Carmelo Martínez, Eduardo Altuzarra
© 2007 Urantia Association of Spain
By various authors
Participants:
Carmelo: In section 6 of paper 49 (UB 49:6.3-15) mortals are classified into five groups:
Of the first type (those with collective seraphic guardians) it is not specified where they repersonalize, but we can assume that on the first mansion world. Or not? Some survive by merging with the Spirit (I understand that definitely), others receiving their adjuster again (the fusion will be later).
Referring to individual ascension mortals, those who have reached the third cosmic circle, and others who are assigned a pair of personal guardians (for example, reservists), it says:
“Throughout the earlier ages of an evolutionary world, few mortals go to judgment on the third day. But as the ages pass, more and more the personal guardians of destiny are assigned to the advancing mortals, and thus increasing numbers of these evolving creatures are repersonalized on the first mansion world on the third day after natural death. On such occasions the return of the Adjuster signalizes the awakening of the human soul, and this is the repersonalization of the dead just as literally as when the en masse roll is called at the end of a dispensation on the evolutionary worlds.” (UB 49:6.9)
“There are three groups of individual ascenders: The less advanced land on the initial or first mansion world. The more advanced group may take up the morontia career on any of the intermediate mansion worlds in accordance with previous planetary progression. The most advanced of these orders really begin their morontia experience on the seventh mansion world.” (UB 49:6.10)
Those of the fourth type, he defines them as:
“. . . These are the progressive human beings of the intermediate evolutionary worlds. As a rule they are not immune to natural death, but they are exempt from passing through the seven mansion worlds.” (UB 49:6.15)
And continues:
“The less perfected group reawaken on the headquarters of their local system, passing by only the mansion worlds. The intermediate group go to the constellation training worlds; they pass by the entire morontia regime of the local system. Still farther on in the planetary ages of spiritual striving, many survivors awaken on the constellation headquarters and there begin the Paradise ascent.” (UB 49:6.16)
Those of the fifth type are defined as:
“. . . These mortals belong to the Adjuster-fused type of evolutionary life, but they are most often representative of the final phases of human development on an evolving world. These glorified beings are exempt from passing through the portals of death; they are submitted to Son seizure; they are translated from among the living and appear immediately in the presence of the Sovereign Son on the headquarters of the local universe.” (UB 49:6.18)
And continues:
“These are the mortals who fuse with their Adjusters during mortal life, and such Adjuster-fused personalities traverse space freely before being clothed with morontia forms. These fused souls go by direct Adjuster transit to the resurrection halls of the higher morontia spheres, where they receive their initial morontia investiture just as do all other mortals arriving from the evolutionary worlds.” (UB 49:6.19)
It is clear that these mortals of the “modified orders” do not pass through the mansion worlds though “…before any of these groups may go forward, they must journey back as instructors to the worlds they missed, gaining many experiences as teachers in those realms which they passed by as students…» (UB 49:6.17).
The doubt is in those of individual ascension because in paper 47 section 3 it is said:
“If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.” (UB 47:3.10)
It refers, as you know, to the ten days of “relaxation” that you have as soon as you wake up. And a little earlier it is said: UB 47:3.7 “On mansion world number one (or another in case of advanced status) you will resume your intellectual training and spiritual development at the exact level whereon they were interrupted by death…”
In the first paragraphs that I quote, I understand that it goes directly to the world that touches you. However, in the latter, it gives the opposite impression. Looking at it carefully, the incompatibility may be only apparent, since paper 49 does not say how do I know what do you think?
This dilemma of going through all the worlds or going directly to the destination one arose in the 2005 meeting, but there was no time to discuss it. Let’s see if we can clear it up now. Me, of course, now that I have compiled the quotes and I have read them all together, I begin to have it a little clearer.
A doubt also arose in that meeting about learning the language of the local universe. Remember that:
“Having mastered the local universe language before leaving the fourth mansion world, you now devote more time to the perfection of the tongue of Uversa to the end that you may be proficient in both languages before arriving on Jerusem with residential status. All ascending mortals are bilingual from the system headquarters up to Havona. And then it is only necessary to enlarge the superuniverse vocabulary, still additional enlargement being required for residence on Paradise.” (UB 47:7.2)
What about those who start their career on the fifth, sixth, or seventh mansion world? And those who start even after the system headquarters, how do they learn the language of the superuniverse?
Antonio: I have the idea, more or less fixed, that ordinary mortals are repersonalized in the first mansion world. If that was not your destination world, where you should start working, after 10 days you will be transferred to the next world and so on until yours arrives. There he fixes and begins to work.
The mortals of the times of light and of life are the ones who usually skip part of the morontia regime, due to their spiritual advancement. Obviously, a mortal of our time is not the same as one of the times of the caves, or one of the times of light and life compared to us.
Regarding the learning of the languages of the universe: “We observe that on these highly evolved and long seventh-stage worlds human beings fully learn the local universe language before they are translated; and I have visited a few very old planets where abandonters were teaching the older mortals the tongue of the superuniverse.” (Paper 55, point 6).
As you can see, everything is planned.
Carmelo: If the alternative to learning the language of the local universe or the superuniverse on the mansion worlds is to learn it on one’s home planet, then ascendants in modified ascension orders only occur on planets that They have been in the seventh stage (of light and life) for a long time, or a very long time. That is not the impression I get when I read the paper 55 . In all stages of light and life, even before and long before, there are mortals who fuse with their Adjuster in the first life, thereby skipping the entire morontia regimen and going directly to local universe headquarters. Presumably there will be more ascendants from the modified secondary order of ascension than from the primary, and therefore will also live in all stages of a planet’s evolution. Paragraph UB 49:6.16 itself suggests so. Where do they all learn said languages?
Eduardo: First of all, you have to know how to differentiate between the general terms in which the UB speaks and those related to Urantia. In the case at hand, he speaks in general terms. And secondly, of the five groups, we have taken into account, for now, the first two.
We agree with Antonio’s statement. Trying to understand Carmelo, what should not worry much is where and when we learn the language of the Universe, but what we do value a lot is how to evolve to reach the third circle here on Urantia, in this life that we have been given. live, and thus obtain a Personal Guardian of Destiny, in order to become repersonalized on the third day.
We consider that the less advanced, that is, those who have reached the third circle, land in the first world, those who have managed to reach the second circle are supposed to go to an intermediate world between the first and the seventh, and those who manage to reach the first circle they settle in the seventh world. Yes or no?
Where do those who have managed to reach the different circles from seven to four go? Don’t they deserve anything? Do they remain asleep until a new dispensation or are they enlarged in the first group and when they are repersonalized they go to the first world?
In its day I wrote an article that has been posted on our website entitled “Evolution and progress.” In it I expose, from my particular points of view, how I believe that the third circle can be reached, after having read the UB. I would like you to give me your point of view.
And we ended up copying a part of the first paragraph of the Dto. 55 in order to cheer us up.
“Neither can environmental limitations, even on an isolated world, thwart the personal attainment of the individual mortal; Jesus of Nazareth, as a man among men, personally achieved the status of light and life over nineteen hundred years ago on Urantia.” (UB 55:11.7)
Carmelo: It’s not that I’m particularly interested in when or how the languages of the universe are studied. What interests me is understanding how things are, even if they are far from us in time. I wanted, and I want, to know what the ascendants of the modified orders of ascension are and when they appear, and the language thing seemed to me, and seems to me, a clue to follow.
As to the question, when someone reaches the third circle they are assigned personal guardians of destiny, and are no longer dependent on dispensational or special resurrections. He is resurrected after dying; on the third day, but go find out what this means; go to know how much time passes. Three periods, but how long is a period?
Does that mean that they begin the morontia career in a different world from the first? I do not have it very clearly. Of course the book doesn’t say it that clearly. Let’s see what others think.
Those who are between circle seven and four, as you say, have to wait for a group, dispensational or special resurrection: hundreds or thousands of years, it depends; maybe just a few. Those who palmed a few days before Jesus waited very little, because with his resurrection there was a dispensational resurrection.
The morontia soul is guarded by the guardians of the ascendants. If they are personal they go with her to the mansion worlds (I suppose); If they are from a group, they keep it in trust until the time comes. The adjusters, in all cases, leave for Divinington (and arrive almost instantly).
But who cares how long you have to wait? Subjectively, for each one, it is to close your eyes when you die, and to reopen them an instant later in the resurrection chamber of mansion world number one, both for each other. Everything else is equal.
I’m not clear about the circles. I don’t quite know what it means to reach a certain circle. I have reread your article, and I am still not clear. It’s not your fault, it’s just that I’m that stupid when something crosses my path, and this has crossed my path.
Antonio: I’m sorry, but I have no idea where those staff end up. But I can tell you that it is something that does NOT worry me. If people as primitive as Andón and Fonta were saved, anyone who wishes can be saved. It makes no difference whether they repersonalize you to the “third period” (let Eduardo not believe it is the “third day”), or whether they do so in a thousand or ten thousand years. No one will know how much time has elapsed, because the unconsciousness is total. As I envision the subject, you lose consciousness at the moment of death, and regain it the next minute. Spot. Because? Well, because you “leave” time (of being aware of the passage of time) and you “enter” time again at the moment of repersonalization.
Going to the first, or the second, or the third mansion world, or appearing on Jerusem, is absolutely indifferent. What is certain is that you will end up in THE WORLD THAT IS SUITABLE FOR YOU, THAT CORRESPONDES TO YOU, IN THE WORLD THAT IS RIGHT FOR YOU, so that you can follow your progress. You will not go to the previous one, nor to the later one. So, I don’t know exactly where the problem or doubt is.
You ask, don’t they deserve anything?.. (?)… Of course they do! Each one will receive what they deserve, that they have earned, whether it is going to the first, second, third… world of mansions, and/or being repersonalized to the third period, in a hundred years, in a thousand, or within a hundred thousand. Does not matter. The case is to survive. Then you have all eternity ahead of you to do what you want.
Eduardo: Personally, I am not very clear about when a human being starts in the seventh circle. But I can say that the UB comments in many sections how we should guide our lives to get closer to those “levels” of evolution. Trying to put these tips into practice, I have managed to “orient” myself a bit. I dare to say that, today, I am closer to those circles than before reading the UB. I don’t know if this is useful for something, but it gives me a lot of strength, a lot of confidence and a lot of hope.