© 2008 Carmelo Martínez, Eduardo Altuzarra, Santiago Rodríguez, Andrés Pérez, Antonio Moya
© 2008 Urantia Association of Spain< /p>
| What is expected of us? | Luz y Vida — No. 12 — February 2008 — Index | News about the UAI International Conference |
By various authors
Participants:
- Carmelo Martínez
- Eduardo Altuzarra
- Santiago Rodríguez
- Andrés Pérez
- Antonio Moya
Carmelo: I have reread these days in Luz y Vida the discussion we had in this same forum about how many survive. And I just read a clear and forceful sentence about it. It’s at the end of the second full paragraph of UB 110:3.5 and it goes like this:
“Only conscious resistance to the Adjuster’s leading can prevent the survival of the evolving immortal soul.”
The revelators were often ambiguous and meandering in their statements. They wrote many sentences that have to be read and reread and to which multiple meanings and interpretations can be found. However, on other occasions they were clear and forceful, with no room for doubt or interpretation. This seems to me one of those cases. I leave it there for your reflection.
Eduardo: I have also reread the theme in “Luz y Vida” and I think the same way as that day. We all have a guide and our duty is to try to “catch” him, we all know more or less how to do it. For those who have not reached this level of belief or knowledge, it will come to them, and of course I have the slight intuition that at some point in the life of every human being, there must always be a moment in which they demand it in a certain way. way or another. And I assume that, as that paragraph says, only a persistent resistance in trying to do the will of the Father comes to truncate the ascending career of every mortal. I agree that the developers are sometimes not very illuminating in their comments, but of course you have to know how to extract the wheat from the chaff throughout the 2096 pages.
Santi: Right, Carmelo. The problem is that it says the “conscious resistance to the Adjuster’s guidance”, that is, it does not seem necessary that you are not even aware of the existence/presence of the Adjuster… Nothing else indicated that the precision of the language is where I am assailed or assailed by doubts. That is, elsewhere he makes it clear to you that the possibility of spiritual death also exists in the flesh; and here it is insisted that it is the conscious resistance to the “adjuster’s guide”, that is to say that you do not even have to be aware of its presence, much less of its existence.
Andrés: Dear friends: I still think that, no matter how stubborn we are in this existence, we do not have the necessary elements to be able to take that option, that is why many lives or existences have to pass in other planes, to be able to take so drastic decision. It may also happen that we do not understand everything that this “unspeakable billet” means and we are mistaking the terms.
Carmelo: Santi, I don’t know if I understand you correctly. I think you are saying that one can consciously resist Adjuster guidance without even knowing it exists. I agree with this statement, but it is an interesting question that we can submit to this forum for consideration.
My opinion is that one can be aware of the “Adjuster’s guide”, of “that light that illuminates man”, of that vague and diffuse awareness of good and evil that every human has, without having the remotest idea of being there. resided by such a gift from the Father. And that you can - consciously - reject that guide, although it seems to me that the awareness of that rejection occurs very rarely, if it ever occurs in this world.
I take advantage of what Andrés says to insist on my opinion on the matter.
The Father’s will is to carry out this immense (infinite?) plan for all creation, for the finite, the absonite and the ultimate (and beyond?). The vision we have of that plan right now and in this world is ridiculously small. We only know how to say that this plan is for the good and happiness of all God’s children and that it is based on love, universal brotherhood and mutual support. We who read the Book also have a certain vision of Reality and of the universes of time and space (from the absonite forward, no idea). Our concept of good and evil is “superlocal,” focused on this planet, this society, and this culture. Our ability to influence creation is minimal, almost non-existent, in keeping with our condition as newborns. We are meant to be powerful influencers as we grow, but now we are… a small mind for a small power. We are nursery babies.
Can we consciously reject - join the Father’s plan? Theoretically, yes, but in practice…
Antonio: I have read all your comments on the issue that Carmelo has raised. As the phrase stands, it appears that only conscious resistance to Adjuster guidance… I have to be aware that I am resisting, rejecting Adjuster guidance. Or maybe it’s not this? 'Must I then be aware that the Adjuster guides me, to be guilty of rejecting his guidance? Or is it enough to be aware of good and evil? If this were the case, if it is enough to be aware of good and evil, when I choose to do evil I would be resisting the Adjuster’s guidance, even though I do not know that I am indwelled by such a spirit.
For me, good always builds, and evil always destroys. Any act of ours, if it destroys, should not go in the right direction. Could the “conscious resistance” be to do good? It would be necessary to see what the Revealers say about what the Adjuster’s guide is, how it guides us, what they understand by guide, etc. Because, IF I DON’T KNOW that the Adjuster is trying to guide me, and I reject him, I cannot be guilty of resisting his guidance. Could “only conscious resistance to guidance” mean “only conscious resistance to doing good”…? Or do you not think that is it?
Carmelo: I don’t know exactly what the revelators say about the Adjuster’s guidance, but I am clear about their general message: the Adjuster guides us towards the will of the Father, which is none other than carrying out his plan. And by definition, good is doing the will of the Father and evil is going in the opposite direction. Also remember the three degrees of this path against: evil, going against by mistake; sin, going against consciously; and iniquity, consciously and repeatedly going against it.
The Adjuster’s guide is that interior notion of good and evil that all humans have had since they were 5 years old and a bit (on Urantia). The problem is that the good that we can know in this first life is only a shadow (a “qualification” as the revelators say) of the absolute good, and the mind that we humans have is an extreme “qualification” of the absolute mind of the Spirit. Infinite. Therefore, limited abilities and vision.
Good and evil do not exist in themselves but in function and in relation to others (like everything); if we cannot know the repercussions (all the repercussions) of our actions because our mind is limited and our knowledge too, we do not have all the decision elements and therefore we cannot demonstrate whether or not we voluntarily adhere to the Father’s plan, and there will be doubts about us; we will have every opportunity to demonstrate our intentions, and given our current limitations, it is more than likely that whoever judges us will have doubts about our decision. In fact, when our decision is firm and final, we merge with our Adjuster. And if this happens 4 or 5 lives after this one, it seems difficult to think that we can decide against it before. It is true that some (very few at this age) merge already in this first life, so it is logical to think that there will be someone who makes the opposite decision in this life, but they will be very few if any. In any case, they are the ones who have evolved the most mentally, the most advanced, the ones who see and know the most. There is probably a minimum of vision and knowledge to be able to make such a decision, minimum that the vast majority do not reach.
Consciously means knowing what we do; Can we know it in this life with how little we are and know?
Santi: I’m ordering concepts, and soon I’ll send you what I think, but I want to take a look at some of the following issues that I think are related:
- spiritual death
- Achieving circles
- The work of the Adjuster in the mind
- That passage in which Jesus “went” to explain or dedicate time to some of the individuals who did not deserve it, (that thing about giving pearls to pigs…)
We agree on the first part, on what I am reflecting on, because it is not so clear to me that this rejection is not conscious, although obviously there will be degrees and there will be mitigating factors, but I think it could occur with some frequency, which is not the case. completely definitive, we’ll see… We agree on the first part, what I’m reflecting on, because it’s not so clear to me that this rejection is not conscious, although obviously there will be degrees and there will be mitigating factors, but I think it could happen with a certain frequency, which is not entirely definitive, we’ll see…
Eduardo: It seems that we all have doubts about how to survive. In his day I commented that my blood froze when I read, in the beginning, the first documents of the UB. I have started from the beginning and the following paragraph that is in Paper 2, Section 3, paragraph 3 has caught my attention. In fact, all of it is not wasted.
Cessation of existence is usually decreed at the dispensational or epochal adjudication of the realm or realms. On a world such as Urantia it comes at the end of a planetary dispensation. Cessation of existence can be decreed at such times by co-ordinate action of all tribunals of jurisdiction, extending from the planetary council up through the courts of the Creator Son to the judgment tribunals of the Ancients of Days. The mandate of dissolution originates in the higher courts of the superuniverse following an unbroken confirmation of the indictment originating on the sphere of the wrongdoer’s residence; and then, when sentence of extinction has been confirmed on high, the execution is by the direct act of those judges residential on, and operating from, the headquarters of the superuniverse.
Later he says:
It is wrong to think of God as being coaxed into loving his children because of the sacrifices of his Sons or the intercession of his subordinate creatures, “for the Father himself loves you.” It is in response to this paternal affection that God sends the marvelous Adjusters to indwell the minds of men. God’s love is universal; “whosoever will may come.” He would “have all men be saved by coming into the knowledge of the truth.” He is “not willing that any should perish.” (UB 2:5.2)
It seems that the Father’s desire is that everyone be saved, but if someone does not “arrive” I interpret that he is not going to have a “heart attack”. Come on, it is real, at least for me, that if you do not take into account the existence of God and you are not interested in knowing his plan, you run the risk of missing out on ascent to Paradise.
Friends, it’s about understanding what the revelators tell us. I think that we should develop the topic from the beginning, I have to write down and send the reviews that we find interesting and enlightening.
Read paper 34, Sections 5, 6 and 7. There I send something from them:
In every mortal there exists a dual nature: the inheritance of animal tendencies and the high urge of spirit endowment. During the short life you live on Urantia, these two diverse and opposing urges can seldom be fully reconciled; they can hardly be harmonized and unified; but throughout your lifetime the combined Spirit ever ministers to assist you in subjecting the flesh more and more to the leading of the Spirit. Even though you must live your material life through, even though you cannot escape the body and its necessities, nonetheless, in purpose and ideals you are empowered increasingly to subject the animal nature to the mastery of the Spirit. There truly exists within you a conspiracy of spiritual forces, a confederation of divine powers, whose exclusive purpose is to effect your final deliverance from material bondage and finite handicaps. (UB 34:6.9)
In another paragraph he says:
The mortals of a normal world do not experience constant warfare between their physical and spiritual natures. They are confronted with the necessity of climbing up from the animal levels of existence to the higher planes of spiritual living, but this ascent is more like undergoing an educational training when compared with the intense conflicts of Urantia mortals in this realm of the divergent material and spiritual natures. (UB 34:7.3)
Santiago: I think the continuation decision (which is not the one that immediately leads to Adjuster fusion) occurs in most cases in life here on Urantia.
Good and evil are related to sin, but they are not the same, and even if it has to do with it, it does not condemn you not to continue your existence.
It is true that the decision to terminate the non-surviving personalities occurs in the dispensational endings, but it is also true that the creature may have ceased to be much earlier.
Eduardo: Dear friends, more of the same: in paper 40, practically all of it.
In some sections it says:
When the mortals of time fail to achieve the eternal survival of their souls in planetary association with the spirit gifts of the Universal Father, such failure is never in any way due to neglect of duty, ministry, service, or devotion on the part of the Adjuster. At mortal death, such deserted Monitors return to Divinington, and subsequently, following the adjudication of the nonsurvivor, they may be reassigned to the worlds of time and space. Sometimes, after repeated services of this sort or following some unusual experience, such as functioning as the indwelling Adjuster of an incarnated bestowal Son, these efficient Adjusters are personalized by the Universal Father. (UB 40:4.1)
In another it is said:
As to the chances of mortal survival, let it be made forever clear: All souls of every possible phase of mortal existence will survive provided they manifest willingness to co-operate with their indwelling Adjusters and exhibit a desire to find God and to attain divine perfection, even though these desires be but the first faint flickers of the primitive comprehension of that “true light which lights every man who comes into the world.” (UB 40:5.19)
Look what more beautiful things and what “compliments” they dedicate to us. In any case, here they are very clear and they speak precisely of us:
The mortal races stand as the representatives of the lowest order of intelligent and personal creation. You mortals are divinely beloved, and every one of you may choose to accept the certain destiny of a glorious experience, but you are not yet by nature of the divine order; you are wholly mortal. You will be reckoned as ascending sons the instant fusion takes place, but the status of the mortals of time and space is that of faith sons prior to the event of the final amalgamation of the surviving mortal soul with some type of eternal and immortal spirit.
It is a solemn and supernal fact that such lowly and material creatures as Urantia human beings are the sons of God, faith children of the Highest. “Behold, what manner of love the Father has bestowed upon us that we should be called the sons of God.” “As many as received him, to them gave he the power to recognize that they are the sons of God.” While “it does not yet appear what you shall be,” even now “you are the faith sons of God”; “for you have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear, but you have received the spirit of sonship, whereby you cry, ‘our Father.’” Spoke the prophet of old in the name of the eternal God: “Even to them will I give in my house a place and a name better than sons; I will give them an everlasting name, one that shall not be cut off.” “And because you are sons, God has sent forth the spirit of his Son into your hearts.”
All evolutionary worlds of mortal habitation harbor these faith sons of God, sons of grace and mercy, mortal beings belonging to the divine family and accordingly called the sons of God. Urantia mortals are entitled to regard themselves as being the sons of God because:
1. You are sons of spiritual promise, faith sons; you have accepted the status of sonship. You believe in the reality of your sonship, and thus does your sonship with God become eternally real.
2. A Creator Son of God became one of you; he is your elder brother in fact; and if in spirit you become truly related brothers of Christ, the victorious Michael, then in spirit must you also be sons of that Father which you have in common—even the Universal Father of all.
3. You are sons because the spirit of a Son has been poured out upon you, has been freely and certainly bestowed upon all Urantia races. This spirit ever draws you toward the divine Son, who is its source, and toward the Paradise Father, who is the source of that divine Son.
4. Of his divine free-willness, the Universal Father has given you your creature personalities. You have been endowed with a measure of that divine spontaneity of freewill action which God shares with all who may become his sons.
5. There dwells within you a fragment of the Universal Father, and you are thus directly related to the divine Father of all the Sons of God. (UB 40:6.1-8)
Santiago: All these valuable reviews make me abound in the idea that “not everyone survives”, because it seems true and evident that the minimum necessary can be very low, but there is a minimum, and it is always required not the knowledge of the human being, but the will to want to aspire to God (in some more or less rudimentary way), but the constant and continued attitude of "I’m not interested in those issues, that doesn’t worry me, or I don’t need any of that , it is for weak minds, I am self-sufficient, pride is the beginning of sin…
Eduardo: I am sending you a paragraph taken from the Dto. 49, Section 6. I consider that this section is enlightening for the topic:
Thus are the sleeping survivors of a planetary age repersonalized in the dispensational roll calls. But with regard to the nonsalvable personalities of a realm, no immortal spirit is present to function with the group guardians of destiny, and this constitutes cessation of creature existence. While some of your records have pictured these events as taking place on the planets of mortal death, they all really occur on the mansion worlds. (UB 49:6.7)
It also says, although not quite to the point (I remember that we have dealt with it previously in this forum) that:
2. Mortals of the individual orders of ascension. The individual progress of human beings is measured by their successive attainment and traversal (mastery) of the seven cosmic circles. These circles of mortal progression are levels of associated intellectual, social, spiritual, and cosmic-insight values. Starting out in the seventh circle, mortals strive for the first, and all who have attained the third immediately have personal guardians of destiny assigned to them. These mortals may be repersonalized in the morontia life independent of dispensational or other adjudications.
Throughout the earlier ages of an evolutionary world, few mortals go to judgment on the third day. But as the ages pass, more and more the personal guardians of destiny are assigned to the advancing mortals, and thus increasing numbers of these evolving creatures are repersonalized on the first mansion world on the third day after natural death. On such occasions the return of the Adjuster signalizes the awakening of the human soul, and this is the repersonalization of the dead just as literally as when the en masse roll is called at the end of a dispensation on the evolutionary worlds. (UB 49:6.8-9)
I have been reading the documents related to the Thought Adjuster (papers 107, 108, 109, 110 and 111) in which are found “The Task of the Adjuster in the Human Mind” (UB 110:4) and "The Seven Circles psychics” (110-6). All of them are important for the subject at hand, they have some relation to survival and, of course, the great difficulties they have in being able to “tip on” some idea. But the one that has clarified my ideas the most has been paper 112 with all its sections. One paragraph says:
On the evolutionary worlds, selfhood is material; it is a thing in the universe and as such is subject to the laws of material existence. It is a fact in time and is responsive to the vicissitudes thereof. Survival decisions must here be formulated. In the morontia state the self has become a new and more enduring universe reality, and its continuing growth is predicated on its increasing attunement to the mind and spirit circuits of the universes. Survival decisions are now being confirmed. When the self attains the spiritual level, it has become a secure value in the universe, and this new value is predicated upon the fact that survival decisions have been made, which fact has been witnessed by eternal fusion with the Thought Adjuster. And having achieved the status of a true universe value, the creature becomes liberated in potential for the seeking of the highest universe value—God. (UB 112:7.6)
I tell you that paper 113 is not wasted either, it is very indicative. The Fourth Part I leave it in your hands.
¶ Carmelo
I have reviewed and reflected on the texts that you have sent and I still do not see that we have sufficient capacity in this first life. My mental scheme is the following:
-
We are in our first life and destined to go through all the stages of reality (finite, absonite and last)
-
Our mind, our vision of reality and our ability to act on the universe are going to grow to levels unsuspected by us now.
-
At this moment and in this life, all of the above are at their minimum. We are the lowest, little more than animals, only the ability to know and adore the Father separates us from them.
-
We are most probably expected not to totally reject walking into this future that awaits us, and the only way to reject it, it seems to me, is to be aware of that future and say fully and definitely that No. Everything else serves to survive, provisionally, of course, because we will have to ratify our decision successively in the next lives, as we have more capacity, until we finally merge, or not, with the Adjuster. The decision is made only once, there is no second chance, but I don’t think we are asked to do it totally in this first life. I do not remember any passage where it is said or from which such a thing can be deduced.
The last paragraph that Eduardo quotes is extremely interesting and one that must be looked at with a magnifying glass and read carefully. Words are very important here. Allow me to put the original text, my translation and then my interpretation:
“On the evolutionary worlds, selfhood is material; it is a thing in the universe and as such is subject to the laws of material existence. It is a fact in time and is responsive to the vicissitudes thereof. Survival decisions must here be formulated. In the morontia state the self has become a new and more enduring universe reality, and its continuing growth is predicated on its increasing attunement to the mind and spirit circuits of the universes. Survival decisions are now being confirmed. When the self attains the spiritual level, it has become a secure value in the universe, and this new value is predicated upon the fact that survival decisions have been made, which fact has been witnessed by eternal fusion with the Thought Adjuster. And having achieved the status of a true universe value, the creature becomes liberated in potential for the seeking of the highest universe value—God.”
“En los mundos evolutivos, la individualidad es material; es una cosa en el universo y como tal, está sometida a las leyes de la existencia material. Es un hecho en el tiempo y es sensible a las vicisitudes del mismo. Las decisiones sobre la supervivencia deben formularse aquí. En el estado moroncial, el yo se ha convertido en una realidad del universo nueva y más duradera y su crecimiento continuado está basado en su sintonización creciente con los circuitos de mente y espiritu del universo. Las decisiones sobre la supervivencia se confirman ahora. Cuando el yo alcanæa el nivel espiritual, se ha convertido en un valor seguro en el universo y este valor nuevo se basa en el hecho de que las decisiones sobre la supervivencia se han tomado, un hecho que se atestigua por la fusión eterna con el Ajustador del Pensamiento. Y babiendo logrado el estatus de un valor verdadero del universo, la criatura resulta liberada en potencial para buscar el valor más alto del universo -Dios.” (UB 112:7.6)
The text marks a decision in three stages: 1) material life, formulation; 2) morontia life, ratification; 3) arrival in the spiritual state, fusion. And in this moment, freedom. What happens, that before we were not free?
To formulate means in English “to reduce to a formula or express something as such” and “to put in the form of a statement or systematized expression.” In Spanish, according to the DRAE in its first meaning, “to reduce to clear and precise terms a mandate, a proposition, a complaint, etc.” I understand this “formulate” as “express systematically”, that is, something that is not a matter of a moment or a rush, but something that marks life, the way of living. Put negatively, that we do not live systematically against the Father. But we must be aware of living systematically against the Father, and this is what seems difficult to me in this life.
In any case, the decision is provisional. We must confirm it (over and over again I would say) in morontia lives. I understand this “confirm” as “make sure.” And to make firm is to internalize the decision in such a way that there is no possibility of turning back. I suppose this is a process, a repetition of acts, not a one-off act.
And when the decision is totally firm, we have reached the spiritual level (which does not mean that we are already first stage spirits) and we merge with the Adjuster.
Look also at the progression of the self. In material life it is a matter of time and subject to its vicissitudes (the death of the body, for example). In the morontia life it is something more real and lasting thanks to becoming more and more in tune with the circuits of knowledge (and growth) of the universe. And when the fusion arrives, the spiritual level is reached and one is free. Before we were on trial and could not be fully trusted (we were not a “safe value”); now we are totally trustworthy, and therefore, free before the universe where we will do the will of the Father as we personally interpret it; it is the freedom to be children (truly, true) of God.
Santi: Well, for my part, and abounding “in the fears” of Edu, I have to say that my conclusion (at least for now) is that not everyone survives.
Antonio: Last night I remembered something that I don’t know if it has already been said here (I don’t remember it). It is specifically our planetary situation, the “luck” we have had to “fall” into this world.
To what has been said and said about “who will survive”, two more things should be added:
The Urantia peoples are suffering the consequences of a double deprivation of help. . . The Caligastia upheaval precipitated world-wide confusion and robbed all subsequent generations of the moral assistance which a well-ordered society would have provided. But even more disastrous was the Adamic default in that it deprived the races of that superior type of physical nature which would have been more consonant with spiritual aspirations.
Urantia mortals are compelled to undergo such marked struggling between the spirit and the flesh because their remote ancestors were not more fully Adamized by the Edenic bestowal
It was the divine plan that the mortal races of Urantia should have had physical natures more naturally spirit responsive.
Notwithstanding this double disaster to man’s nature and his environment… (UB 34:7.4-6)
We suffer, from the outset, just for being born here, a double disaster: a BADLY ordered society (thanks to Caligastia) and a physical nature NOT AT ALL sensitive to the spirit (thanks to Adam). In such an environment, and with such a nature, what do they want? What do these wretches do? On top of that, are they not going to survive, because they are bad or unconscious or consumerists?
The Gods take good note of the place of birth, the environment, the heredity, and the other characteristics of the individual. If they are to be fair, it cannot be otherwise.
In this regard, I always remember the words of Jesus on the cross: “Father, forgive them, for they do NOT know what they are doing”. And who does NOT know what he is doing, what is he?.. An ignoramus, an unconscious. ¿ Are you going to punish him for not knowing what he’s doing? To reflect…
Eduardo: After having read all of them, I dare to say that, given the above, there is no need to be afraid, that here earthlings do not take away our existence like that at the first opportunity, right? At the moment it seems, according to versions, that we can be calm and happy that they do not mess with us given the “circumstances”. They won’t ask someone who doesn’t find a soul for explanations because they consider him an ignorant animal and the one who does, is saved for the moment because he has decided to seek God, right? Well, that’s great, that everything is so simple and simple, I’m glad for that. He had a “nightmare” on him. I think that the subject has given a lot of itself and has clarified doubts.
I would like to point out certain nuances and establish a certain order. My mental scheme is the following:
- We are in our first life and destined to go through all stages of reality (finite, absonite and ultimate)
- Our mind, our vision of reality and our ability to act on the universe are going to grow to levels unsuspected by us now.
- At this moment and in this life, all of the above are at their minimum. We are the lowest, little more than animals, only the ability to know and adore the Father separates us from them.
- We are most probably expected not to totally reject walking into this future that awaits us, and the only way to reject it, it seems to me, is to be aware of that future and say fully and definitely that No. Everything else serves to survive, provisionally, of course, because we will have to ratify our decision successively in the next lives, as we have more capacity, until we finally merge, or not, with the Adjuster. The decision is made only once, there is no second chance, but I don’t think we are asked to do it totally in this first life. I do not remember any passage where it is said or from which such a thing can be deduced.
A decision in three stages:
- Material life, formulation
- Morontia life, ratification
- Arrival to the spiritual state, fusion. And in this moment, freedom.
Let’s make some preliminary notes on the subject, what I will comment below happens in our Urantia world:
- We are born and given a body
- We are endowed with a (borrowed) mind capable of housing an Adjuster, which we are lucky enough to arrive without asking for, as it did before Pentecost.
- We have a Personality, and I understand that it is this Personality that is endowed with will, and is the one that decides at each moment.
As I indicated before, the process goes through the following stages:
- You have a body in which to house a normal mind.
- You must have an Adjuster so that it can initiate together with your mind, and after it has craved in some way and to some extent to reach, know, arrive at or be or resemble some ideal of God.
- You have to allow that soul to grow and develop (achievement of the circles), and that is when we enter into the issues of good/evil and sin, etc…
(To be continued in the next issue)
¶ References
- Light and Life Magazine (all old issues): https://aue.urantia-association.org/numeros-antiguos-del-lyv/
| What is expected of us? | Luz y Vida — No. 12 — February 2008 — Index | News about the UAI International Conference |