© 2008 Eduardo Altuzarra, Antonio Moya, Carmelo Martínez, Andrés Pérez
© 2008 Urantia Association of Spain
By various authors
Participants:
Eduardo: After having carefully read Santi’s document, by the way very complete and interesting, I would like to tell you, according to emails that I have sent you in previous days “… I dare say, that given the above , there is no need to be afraid, that here we earthlings do not take away our existence like this at the first opportunity” Today I think that this is not very safe. … “For the moment we can be calm and happy that they are not messing with us given the ‘circumstances’”. I think we shouldn’t be so calm. … Whoever doesn’t get a soul, they won’t ask for explanations because they consider him an ignorant animal… I think that yes they will ask for explanations. … that’s good, that everything is so simple and simple, I’m happy about it. Now I think that everything is not so simple and I’m not happy about it. And later I commented to you… “Well, I think that at this point in the study, because for me things have been somewhat better “furnished” than before, I think that it has not been clear to us that there is the possibility that some mortals do not come to survive. Three of us think that this possibility exists, two that it doesn’t exist because we are babies, and two more who know we don’t answer. Nor have we been able to discern who survives, assuming that some do and others do not” and ended by saying: “In conclusion, I know more but I am not very sure if I am right,…” I continue modifying some things that after having read Santi they have made me reflect more deeply and I have to tell you that, for me it is clearer that there is the possibility that some mortals do not survive; that you are not two, but three who think in the same way in favor of IF the possibility that everyone survives. Now I’m a little more sure that NO and who survives. Today I am more convinced that I am right. Santi’s document further reaffirms the interpretations that I have of UB regarding this issue. I think that the UB is quite clear in many aspects and that this is a thorny question, as Santi refers to it, because of the apparently contradictory thoughts, feelings and desires, simply because they come from human emotions.
My friends, I consider that this is a good time to comment and finish off the topic itself.
And of course, I fully agree with Carmelo in that: «… the readers of the UB know something more, and therefore we have more obligations and fewer justifications. Let’s take it into account"
Antonio: I, on this issue of how many survive, really, I think that speculation (and opinions) can go ad infinitum. And I also believe that no matter how hard we try to penetrate the wall of mystery, we’ll crack our heads against it and only get a big bump. That speculating and arguing is fine, and I’m the first to do so, but reaching conclusions about something as delicate as this – eternal survival – I, to be honest, prefer to suspend my judgement. I have wondered for many years (and still do), what happened to Judas Iscariot? Did they revive him or not? And I have no idea what the answer might be. I don’t think it’s my business.
Although the arguments of Santi and the others may be true and justified, I believe that we have many things in our defense, many external things that go against our spiritual progress. My interior tells me that God, who knows everything very well, has compassion and mercy on us, and if there is someone who is not saved, it must be because he is a true hopeless case, an exception, a black sheep in the midst of lots of white ones. . I cannot think otherwise of a Father who creates his children and who resists, in a totally logical and paternal way, to annihilate them. If any of us would act like this with his children, how much more so He! Won’t you consume every last cartridge to save those stubborn, ignorant and immature people that we are? Won’t he manage to make them live experiences that make them “realize it”? And so on…
I don’t know how many survive, but to me, God as a father takes precedence over God as a judge, just as God as an artist takes the cake over God as an engineer. And that each one look at his own father’s heart and his attitude towards his children, and see what he usually does.
Carmelo: I have also read Santi’s document, and it seems to me that we have not understood each other. I do not claim that all beings on Urantia automatically survive. To survive it is necessary to make the decision. What I am saying is that the vast majority of Urantians do not make that decision on this planet; or to be more precise, they don’t make the decision against it, although there are possibly a few (perhaps many) who start to take it in favor.
The conditions of the planet (lack of an active Planetary Prince, absence of Material Sons, lack of communication with “civilization”) prevent the majority from even knowing that such a decision is expected of them; who on this planet has any notion of the Father’s plan?; who knows how to listen to that inner voice that tells us what the Father is like?; and without knowing the Father, can one decide not to adore him? What I’m saying is not that they all survive but that many are repersonalized because haven’t made the decision yet. In this I clearly do not agree with Santi. He says that you have to make the decision on this planet and in this first life, I think not.
It is necessary to say yes to survive; but it is equally necessary to say no in order to die definitively. And those who say neither yes nor no, “through no fault of their own”? I don’t know if this “excuse” is valid on a normal planet, of course it will cease to be valid as we move through the mansion worlds, but on this one I find it totally justified. We are babies and we are isolated; Can we decide in these circumstances?
Neither in Santi’s quotes, nor in any other passage of the UB that I remember, have I found anything that contradicts what I affirm.
Andrés: Dear friends: In a section of chapter 32, at the end of the page, it says, There is in the mind of God a plan that includes all the creatures of all his vast domains, and this plan consists of a eternal purpose of unlimited opportunities, unlimited progress and endless life. And the infinite treasures of this incomparable race are yours only if you strive!
And this is “presented by a Mighty Messenger temporarily attached to the High Council of Nebadon and assigned to this mission by Gabriel of Salvington.” I believe that this being is not just anyone, so my desires coincide more with this being than with some things from L.U. that I do not finish “catching”