© 2010 Carmelo Martínez, Antonio Moya, Santiago Rodríguez
© 2010 Urantia Association of Spain
By various authors
Participants:
- Carmelo Martínez
- Antonio Moya
- Santiago Rodríguez
¶ Carmelo
Friends: I have not found anything that says that the beings that are born in the worlds of outer space will be absonite or not. But of course their experience will be absonite, since all the finite potentials will have been exhausted with the arrival of light and life of the superuniverses.
In the “Study of the Master Universe” by Sadler Jr., the category of postfinite beings is defined, which are the perfect and perfected beings who have participated in the evolutionary growth of the Supreme, who have thereby managed to escape the limitations of the finite and who participate (will participate) in the adventure of the Ultimate. To these should be added, I think, the future inhabitants of outer space, who will also participate in the adventure of the Last One; and we could suppose that they will not be finite, since nothing of the finite is related to them. Everything finite will have passed “before” them. There will be time and there will be space, but all the activities of the personalities will unfold always transcending them.
Nor have I found anything in the Book that says that finaliters will become absonite when acting on the worlds of outer space. But I have found these other things, which by the way I had not fallen into in my previous readings (this study group works and works, at least for me). At the outset, a categorical statement: «…And in the case of those who receive the Mystery Monitors there is, in fact, no limit to the heights they can reach in their spiritual ascent and their achievement in the universe .” (end of UB 32:3.8)
We learn to deal with absonite beings on Paradise.
“Part of the perfected mortal’s experience on Paradise as a finaliter consists in the effort to achieve comprehension of the nature and function of more than one thousand groups of the transcendental supercitizens of Paradise, eventuated beings of absonite attributes… . .” (UB 31:8.1)
And also that our destiny is that:
“The gathering together of these seven finaliter corps signifies reality mobilization of potentials, personalities, minds, spirits, absonites, and experiential actualities that probably transcend even the future master universe functions of the Supreme Being. These seven finaliter corps probably signify the present activity of the Ultimate Trinity engaged in mustering the forces of the finite and the absonite in preparation for inconceivable developments in the universes of outer space. Nothing like this mobilization has taken place since the near times of eternity when the Paradise Trinity similarly mobilized the then existing personalities of Paradise and Havona and commissioned them as administrators and rulers of the projected seven superuniverses of time and space. The seven finaliter corps represent the divinity response of the grand universe to the future needs of the undeveloped potentials in the outer universes of future-eternal activities.” (UB 31:10.10)
“The Corps of the Finality embrace, among others, those mortals of time and space who have attained perfection in all that pertains to the will of God. As creatures and within the limits of creature capacity they fully and truly know God. Having thus found God as the Father of all creatures, these finaliters must sometime begin the quest for the superfinite Father. But this quest involves a grasp of the absonite nature of the ultimate attributes and character of the Paradise Father. Eternity will disclose whether such an attainment is possible, but we are convinced, even if the finaliters do grasp this ultimate of divinity, they will probably be unable to attain the superultimate levels of absolute Deity.” (UB 10:8.7)
This last statement apparently contradicts the first quote (accept that we can reach superfinites but not superults). And one more hint of what is after the finite experience:
“. . .And then will the Paradise residents be confronted with the necessity of adjusting to that absonite differential of personal experience which can be leveled off only by the group attainment of the ultimate of creature status—the seventh-stage-spirit destiny of the mortal finaliters.” (UB 44:8.5)
In summary, it is not said that the finaliters become absonite beings, but it is affirmed that the experience that comes after exhausting the finite is, and must be, absonite, and in fact, the finaliters prepare for it in Paradise trying with absonite beings.
I don’t know if there is a difference between being absonite from origin, that is, being eventuated, and being absonite from evolution, that is, perfecting yourself until you fill the finite and then learning to deal with the absonite, but it doesn’t matter. I believe that finaliters will act in all respects as absonite beings, that is, by themselves transcending time and space, and that their postfinite growth will be through absonite experiences. I also intuit that there will be a post-ultimate stage of growth, I don’t know with what kind of experiences (absolute experiences?), as it is said in the “Study of the Master Universe”, what is not so clear is whether we will be able to culminate it to reach the absolute and existential level, a doubt that is reflected in UB 10:8.7.
I also don’t know if the inhabitants of outer space will be absonite in their origin or not, that is, if they will come into existence through eventuation or through creation, but it doesn’t matter either. Their growth will be only with absonite experiences, they will not have an iota of growth with finite experiences, but we will be there to complement them with our perfected finite nature, just as the perfect beings are now with us to complement our still unperfected finite nature.
Santi’s message aroused a lot of interest in me. I find it an interesting topic. I have searched on the subject through the Book and I have found what I have copied from you above, and doing so I have learned a lot. Now I have the clearest ideas, not about what the absonite is (as Antonio said, I can’t imagine it), but about our relationship with it.
I think that what the quotes say is more or less what Santi told us, that I already see that he is a “machine” on these issues.
¶ Antonio
My idea on the subject is as follows: When we complete the finite level (arrival in the presence of the Father and enrollment in the Corps of the Finality), we will have exhausted our potential for finite growth. We will no longer have anything else to learn or do at the finite level. In fact, when definitively traveling to Paradise, remember that we do it while asleep and that we will wake up there as eternal beings. The (last?) metamorphosis will take place. Consequently, we stop being space-time beings. And if we stop being space-time… what comes next?
The UB also says that our personality can penetrate 7 cosmic levels: 3 at the finite level, 3 at the beautiful level and 1 at the absolute level. So that?..
The UB also says that our Adjuster is pre-personal, that we have the personality, and that when we merge (or after, I can’t remember) we will ultimately become “omnipersonal” beings…
If we are going to work in outer space in search of the Ultimate (after having found the Supreme), we can only do it AS ABSONITE BEINGS (of the first degree, if you like, but absonite after all). And when we have found the Ultimate (that is, the same Universal Father but in the transcendental levels), we will have completed the absonite level. We will not be absonite, you say?.. If you are not finite, how are you going to contribute to the appearance of the Supreme? If you are not absonite, how are you going to contribute to the appearance of the Ultimate?.. Remember that they are experiential Deities, and that they will appear as the beings of that level COMPLETE that level, EXHAUST it.
And when God the Ultimate is a MANIFESTED reality in the master universe, we will begin the search for God Absolute, who is also experiential, but… I think that we will never reach him, because there we will have come face to face with infinity. It makes me dizzy to think about it, but we will never, never, never end… Always, all eternity, we will be looking for God as Absolute, as infinite. And why will we never end? Because if we ended, we would be infinite (or absolute) like him. And… There is only one infinite, (and I found you on the street) 
If not, what is ETERNITY?.. Here it NEVER ends. As the UB says, we complete PARTIAL goals, we take a breather, and then we go up the next step. Visualize a ladder (Jacob’s ladder), look up, and see how perspective makes you lose yourself in infinity… Well, that’s what awaits us.
¶ Carmelo
Neither does your opinion “go barefoot”, Antonio. In my previous message I did not want to pronounce myself, and I assured that it did not matter to me if we really became absonite beings or if we only acquired the capacity to act as such. After reading your message, especially the fact that we must fall asleep (once again) before the last trip from which we will wake up as citizens of Paradise, I begin to think that we did become absonite beings, precisely in that (last?) metamorphosis as you correctly describe it.
Let’s see what Santi thinks, it seems he thought the opposite.
In any case, your opinion has also been very useful to me, and I thank you very much. It clarifies a lot for me some concepts that I had “caught with tweezers”. I have to study more about “penetrating 7 cosmic levels” and “omnipersonal” beings, other concepts that had escaped me in my previous readings
¶ Santiago
It doesn’t matter if what we “suppose” is more or less correct, what is important is the effort in understanding it, which I suspect develops the ability to assimilate/understand new concepts.
Antonio, I would like you to expand on the idea of “becoming omnipersonal beings”, I haven’t found the reference, and I can’t imagine what it refers to…
I share the idea that what awaits us is ETERNITY eternally, and that (due to being finite, I suppose) we will go completing stages…
About the other issues, my vision today is a little different, I will try to tell it and support it in the fragments or areas of the UB that lead me to that way of seeing it. I hope you don’t get bored (after all, you are the ones responsible for me writing it)
In my opinion, absonite beings are absonite because they eventuated like this; and I do not see the need, nor have I found references that lead me to think about it, that we will go through the circumstance of migrating from our state of finite beings (which I believe we will never be able to renounce, since it has been our way of appearing in the cosmic scenario) to absonite beings, that their way of appearing on the cosmic scenario was completely different, they were not created, they were something else (eventuated) and they are neither finite nor infinite, they are halfway (pg 332 IV Eventuated Transcendental Beings …) It seems to me that, as a personality, we will never stop being FINITE. The UB says that the absonites exist in 4 last levels (I don’t know how many more levels there are) of personality activity. It seems that their current setting is Paradise (logical, because space and time are inherently transcended there), and they function on the 7 levels of the absonite (there seem to be 7 levels). As Antonio says (I have not found that appointment, if you can provide it to me, I would appreciate it…eternally), our personality (being finite) will be able to penetrate 3 of those 7 absonite levels, when it is properly trained (I understand)
From what I understand that our arrival in Paradise does NOT make us absonite beings, but finite evolutionary beings, who have been perfected by experience, and who will enable us to work in an absonite framework helped by beings who are capable of transcending. the time and the space.
Reaching the Father means completing the mandate, passing the test, for this universal age given to evolutionary beings: to be Perfect as He is Perfect. The doubt of whether the Father is there and whether or not he is accessible will disappear from our consciousness (p. 295, the test of time…)
As for the last dream or metamorphosis that occurs upon entering Paradise as resident beings, I suspect that when we have been visitors, they have had to adjust our immediate surroundings on Paradise (they scuba us) so that as space-time beings we can “ to circulate” through a place where space and time do not exist as such but are transcended. After the last metamorphosis and the last dream of time prior to entering Eternity, what they modify is our (finite) spiritual being, to give it the ability to roam freely through Paradise in which time and space do not exist. as such (they have grown us ”gills of eternity")
Upon arriving in Paradise with the status of residents (UB 30:4.32), already forming part of the Corps of Finality, we will begin a progressive course in divinity and absonity, which effectively does not transform us into gods or into absonite beings. Another thing is that our spirit at that moment is capable of doing things at some absonite level of reality.
I find an explicit reference (UB 31:2.2, towards the middle of the paragraph): “…the Finalists of the Mortal Body cannot defy neither time nor space…” In fact we are associated with the Messengers of Gravity (which curiously are modified and personalized Adjusters) I say “curiously”, because one of the things that intrigues me a lot is to know what abilities - besides immortality - fusion with the Adjuster gives us, because I think that he will not lose many of his abilities previous. The Father always conspires so that 1+1 is more than two, and I do not believe that in the fusion the Adjuster, although he gains personality, loses other things, and that they have a timeless technique of traversing space.
On the other hand, I do not interpret that reaching the Father in Paradise, and later “enlisting” ourselves in the Corps of the Finality, exhausts our capacity for finite growth in the least.
(UB 106:3.2: . . .appearance of the Almighty Supreme at the termination of the present universe age will signify that the evolutionary finite has attained the first stage of experiential destiny. . .) It does not appear that we have exhausted the finite, only completed what is required in the present universal age. If we have “only” reached the first stage of the experiential destiny, it seems logical to think that there will be other successive experiential stages, later we will see that they will also be in a finite frame not only presumably absonite. (UB 117:2.1: . . .And the final fruits of all finite growth are: power controlled through mind by spirit by virtue of the unifying and creative presence of personality. . . .) Paragraph where it indicates how Carmelo said that it is expected that a time will come when the spirit dominates the energy, but it seems to be something that will happen, in the future when evolutionary growth will make the Supreme appear. (Also UB 117:3.2)
(UB 117:2.6: . . .This termination of the evolution of the Supreme will also witness the ending of creature evolution as a part of Supremacy. . .) That is, each one of us and all beings who “contribute something to the Supreme” have already achieved what they can contribute to the Supreme, so I don’t think it will prevent further growth, even in the finite framework, even if it doesn’t necessarily contribute to Supremacy. I see it -trying to make an analogy- in the following way: just as the Universal Father deprives himself of the possibility of doing anything that his associates can do, the Supreme will be completed when all the finite potentials are actualized, and they do so. not because of his person, but because they are actualized by the different beings on which their growth depends (us and all beings that grow by evolution, being all finite,…) But although it seems paradoxical, it is not; exhausted the finite potentials that are needed in the present universe age (other potentials would be possible, but would not be possible in this universe age), the Supreme appears. Effectively, all possible potentials have been actualized, the growth in the finite for the Supreme has already ended. But we finite beings will be able to continue growing in the finite because we will be able to experience, through the mediation of the Supreme, everything that other beings have managed to actualize.
The fact that each one of us actualizes a potential does not mean that we have experienced all of them (yet). Then we will have an immense field of action in the finite, as a possibility of experiential growth.
And I think that there is still something pending to update. If the creatures have not been able to actualize it, the Supreme One himself will take care of bringing it into existence, apparently waiting for all possibilities of finite action to be exhausted before intervening. (UB 116:4.3, the appearance of Majeston).
UB 117:6.6:. . .Then, throughout the realms of finaliter activity in the grand universe, there appears a new awakening of the latent mother potential of the Supreme, a new realization of experiential meanings,. . . What made me leads one to think that, in the race of finalists in the present universal age, we still have a lot of things/situations open to experience within the framework of the finite, as is logical on the other hand, since the Supreme is on the way.
In this universal age, we finite beings are contributing to the gestation of the Supreme as a finite God, and that will be our achievement that will differentiate us from possible finite beings (from the other outer space levels), who may possibly enjoy with us a continuous finite growth, but which will no longer be on the way to the birth of the Supreme…
Moreover, it tells us when the Supreme will be actualized (UB 117:6.24: The achievement of self-realization…) The “exhaustion” of all finite potentials (achievement and actualization of the Supreme) will occur when it has been achieved on the one hand the perfected balance of the universes (I mean physical balance as well), and the self-realization of all creatures (which I don’t see as exhausting all possibilities of new finite experience for each one of the creatures)
In short: it is true that we will be eternally entertained; It is true that our current finite development will lead us to perfect ourselves as creatures and, when all of them have been perfected and all possible potentials for this universal age have been actualized, the Supreme will emerge, but I believe that this will not exhaust the growth potentials in the finite. for each of the individual creatures.
Our evolution will provide us with resources to experientially penetrate into the absonite (or any of its phases or levels) and even (why not) into the Absolute. Let’s remember that we still have to figure out what our definitive association with an entity that is a fragment of the Universal Father will allow us, and I think that some degree of absoluteness, at least personally, must have. We may not have access to the absolute of deity or deification, nor of the non-deity, and non-personal, but I suppose that a portion of the absolute of personality (that which is our own Adjuster) will be within our reach in that remote future. which will allow us experiences not only in the absonite but also in the absolute…
¶ Antonio
The theme of omnipersonal beings is in UB 109:7.4. It is possible that I was wrong, and that we never become omnipersonal beings. This page deals with the Adjusters that the Father has customized. Maybe that’s where my confusion comes from, because I see a lot of resemblance between those beings and us (once merged). It is possible that the fundamental difference is that we will be both pre-personal (what the Adjuster contributes) and personal (what we contribute), but to be realized by experience in the eternal future, and the Personalized Adjusters NOW ALREADY OWN everything. what gives of itself that union of the pre-personal and the personal.
The UB says that “they are omnipersonal -they are before the personality, they are the personality and they are after the personality”. The fact that they are “posterior to personality” (superpersonal) and perform functions at absonite levels disconcerts me. Obviously we are NOT the same, but I KEEP SEEING similarities between them and us, because after all we are destined to penetrate the absonite (superpersonal) level and even try to do so at the absolute level. Hence, in my head the idea that possibly WE WILL BECOME omnipersonal beings. Read point 7 and observe the similarities (and differences) with us.
Regarding the levels penetrable by our personality, it is at UB 112:1.9. personality and reality. Read it slowly, there is no waste. “The type of personality bestowed upon Urantia mortals has a potentiality of seven dimensions of self-expression or person-realization. . . are realizable as three on the finite level, three on the absonite level, and one on the absolute level”. I let you taste it.
And as for the exhaustion of finite potentials, my opinion is that they will be exhausted as soon as the Supreme arises. Its very appearance will be indicative of the end of the finite. There will be no more potentials to update. I invite you to read in UB 117:6.24 and UB 117:7.1. Likewise, UB 118:10.15: “…a stability indicative that the potentials for finite growth have been exhausted”. It is logical. When the last personality of the space-time universe has been perfected, the Supreme will emerge and begin to rule the 7 superuniverses. The Finite Age will be over. The appearance of the Supreme means that THERE IS NO LONGER anything finite that can be actualized. I refer you to Sadler’s “History of Creation”, page 15. At the end of the Second Era (Finite History) the First Synthesis will have been produced, the union of the perfect (Havona) and the perfected (7 superuniverses), the Supreme arises, and becomes part of the First Experiential Trinity (composed of the Master Architects, the Supreme Creators and the Supreme Being).
This First Experiential Trinity is the one that will recruit all the resources and personalities of the Second Nuclear Universe (the Grand Universe = Havona + 7 superuniverses) to take them to work (like mules) in the 4 levels of outer space in search of the Ultimate God. Consequently, there will NO LONGER be anything finite to update.
¶ Carmelo
I believe that Antonio is right: the finite level, the finite potentials, are exhausted with the appearance of the Supreme; or rather, the appearance of the Supreme is due to the exhaustion of finite potentials. The citations provided by Antonio (UB 117:6.24 and UB 118:10.15) are definitive in this sense. Something more about it is said in paragraphs UB 0:7.10 and UB 0:8.11 of the Prologue, which is a real mine of information… when you can decipher it. By the way, note that the exhaustion of finite possibilities has two different aspects: perfected self-realization (finite perfection) of all personalities and perfected equilibrium (physical stabilization) in all universes. Is this the power-personality unification that UB refers to so many times?
I’m afraid the only omnipersonal beings are custom fitters. This is stated at the beginning of paragraph UB 109:7.4.
On the levels penetrable by the personality I am still perplexed. It is evident that I need more time to assimilate what the UB 10:3.19 section says. Antonio, any more opinion on the matter?; any more explanation?
¶ Antonio
To end this topic (at least for my part), I answer the last thing Carmelo asked about whether it is power-personality unification: I think so. In the documents on the Supreme Being it is talked about at length. The perfection of people plus the physical stabilization of the current universes will result in the appearance of the Supreme and the end of the Finite Age. The 7 superuniverses will be perfectly stabilized (as Havona is now) and all their personalities will have been perfected. End of the Second Age of the Universe. In the Supreme Being, all this will be unified as the synthesis of power and personality, that is, the dominance of the spirit, through the personality, over energy-matter.
I can not think of anything else. Just emphasize what the UB says: our personality can work with the same efficiency in the local universe, in the superuniverse and in the central universe. At the finite level, at the absonite level, and even at the absolute level (not at the existential absolute, which is the Deity level, but at the experiential absolute). And in the realms of the material, the morontia and the spiritual. Almost nothing!
It is not to be surprised. Merging with the Adjuster is no small feat. You merge with a plot of Infinity, and the possibilities that open up are… tremendous. Consequently, the Father has endowed us with a personality that can work on ALL levels of the universe.
¶ References
- Light and Life Magazine (all old issues): https://aue.urantia-association.org/numeros-antiguos-del-lyv/